I don't think a full ban which would ground us recreation fliers will get through personally.... but a 30% Tariff is something else entirely..

[VenomXts]

Awaiting DJI drone ban, US pols look to jack tariffs 30%

While still pushing a bill to de facto ban DJI drone use in the US, politicians now introduce a law to increase tariffs on the UAVs 30%

dronedj.com

Thoughts? Disagree?

 

[MARK (LI)]

I think this is time for Yankee ingenuity to kick in and some US Company come up with drones that are equal to or surpass dji's line up...
I think that those of us who already fly may be reluctantly inclined to pay more...but I think the higher prices may discourage new people from "going for it".
...But, if there is a 30% tariff....does the threat to National Security evaporate?

 

[mavic3usa]

I think this is time for Yankee ingenuity to kick in and some US Company come up with drones that are equal to or surpass dji's line up...
I think that those of us who already fly may be reluctantly inclined to pay more...but I think the higher prices may discourage new people from "going for it".
...But, if there is a 30% tariff....does the threat to National Security evaporate?

The tariff is not national security related but designed to help US competitors. CCP unfairly subsidizes DJI so I guess the US decides to fight fire with fire. It won't work because the best and brightest US companies have little to no serious interest in entering the volatile and unforgiving and unpredictable UAV drone space. In the US, the biggest market is the recreational consumer and they are largely despised and regarded as toxic and often disrespected making it difficult to impossible to conduct meaningful and productive business. This presents several challenges that most new companies often cannot overcome. If you just want to be part of the emerging technology and enjoy making statements about future prospects and showing off cool vaporware that will never go to market, you may succeed in this market. However, long term you cannot plan for or expect any sort of consistent growth or predictable evolution in technology. Government interference is just too great. In fact, all it takes is one unfortunate incident involving your product and you are likely done for...unable to overcome the loss of reputation or the endless litigation as a result of misuse of your product by bad actors. It would probably be easier, more profitable, and more enjoyable to open a chicken rental shop for urban farmers.

 

[msinger]

I think this is time for Yankee ingenuity to kick in and some US Company come up with drones that are equal to or surpass dji's line up

We've been waiting for that one for years now. I think the best we're going to get (if an alternative is ever needed) is a company like Anzu Robotics who is licensing DJI's technology.

I haven't had the opportunity to try one yet, but the Spectra does have good reviews on Amazon so far. Perhaps not a surprise though since it's essentially a near copy of a DJI drone.

 

[anotherlab]

We've been waiting for that one for years now. I think the best we're going to get (if an alternative is ever needed) is a company like Anzu Robotics who is licensing DJI's technology.

I haven't had the opportunity to try one yet, but the Spectra does have good reviews on Amazon so far. Perhaps not a surprise though since it's essentially a near copy of a DJI drone.

View attachment 175070

It's more than a near copy, it's a full copy down to their firmware being hosted on DJI servers. I read they did some firmware tweaks so that you can't mix and match the Specta RC and batteries with the Air 3. They are using a remote with a screen to bypass the need for a mobile app.

It's a pointless exercise. If HR 2864 passes, they would just add the white-label companies to the same list that DJI will end up on.

Source: High-Flying Masquerade: DJI’s Shadowy Shell Game Unveiled

 

[msinger]

it's a full copy down to their firmware being hosted on DJI servers

That source is chock-full of links, videos, and ads everywhere. Is that firmware mention somewhere within that mess or did you find that firmware mention elsewhere?

 

[MS Coast]

It won't work because the best and brightest US companies have little to no serious interest in entering the volatile and unforgiving and unpredictable UAV drone space.

Another condemnation of American government, industry, markets, and outlooks for progress. I feel like I need to defend my home country.

What is so volatile about the "drone space" in the US. The only significant change in regulations in many years is RID, and it was announced years in advance and implementation was smooth.

In the US, the biggest market is the recreational consumer and they are largely despised and regarded as toxic and often disrespected making it difficult to impossible to conduct meaningful and productive business.

And yet DJI sells thousands of drones in the US despite the fact that drones are despised, regarded as toxic, and disrespected.

If you just want to be part of the emerging technology and enjoy making statements about future prospects and showing off cool vaporware that will never go to market, you may succeed in this market.

A company that does not actually produce products cannot be considered a success.

However, long term you cannot plan for or expect any sort of consistent growth or predictable evolution in technology. Government interference is just too great. In fact, all it takes is one unfortunate incident involving your product and you are likely done for...unable to overcome the loss of reputation or the endless litigation as a result of misuse of your product by bad actors.

SpaceX, Tesla, Apple, Nvidia, and other high-tech companies might disagree.

It would probably be easier, more profitable, and more enjoyable to open a chicken rental shop for urban farmers.

Not around here. Things may be different where you live.

 

[mavic3usa]

Another condemnation of American government, industry, markets, and outlooks for progress. I feel like I need to defend my home country.

What is so volatile about the "drone space" in the US. The only significant change in regulations in many years is RID, and it was announced years in advance and implementation was smooth.



And yet DJI sells thousands of drones in the US despite the fact that drones are despised, regarded as toxic, and disrespected.


A company that does not actually produce products cannot be considered a success.


SpaceX, Tesla, Apple, Nvidia, and other high-tech companies might disagree.


Not around here. Things may be different where you live.

Sometimes I feel like I need to respond so you don't think I believe you're right and that is all. I disagree with you and I stated my opinion and we'll just have to disagree because I prefer not to go over all of this point by point....unless you are up for it. Otherwise, I would just prefer to leave it my thoughts as to why the "drone industry" won't be going anywhere great anytime soon and we can just wait to see if I turn out to be right or wrong. Let's check back in 5 years, maybe 10 and see if there is a number #2 and number #3 US drone company doing well. America is a great place to take risks and start a business and reach for the stars and long as you don't have to fight the government. Lot of great people and smart people in this country, my only comments are where they are focused....and where they aren't so much.

 

[MS Coast]

Sometimes I feel like I need to respond so you don't think I believe you're right and that is all. I disagree with you and I stated my opinion and we'll just have to disagree because I prefer not to go over all of this point by point....unless you are up for it. Otherwise, I would just prefer to leave it my thoughts as to why the "drone industry" won't be going anywhere great anytime soon and we can just wait to see if I turn out to be right or wrong. Let's check back in 5 years, maybe 10 and see if there is a number #2 and number #3 US drone company doing well. America is a great place to take risks and start a business and reach for the stars and long as you don't have to fight the government. Lot of great people and smart people in this country, my only comments are where they are focused....and where they aren't so much.

Please don't be at all concerned about whether I think you agree with me or not. It's not a contest and I'm not trying to convince you. I'm simply posing another more fact-based viewpoint for the group to consider rather than just blaming things on the gubmit.

You've misrepresented my comments. There was no statement that US companies will be producing consumer drones soon.

American governments (federal, state, local) are not preventing domestic production of consumer drones. If anything, the recent actions an proposed actions of American governments restricting the purchase of foreign-made drones is providing an advantage to potential American manufacturers.

There are no American consumer drone producers because no company wants to produce them here. It's about economics and business realities. The situation is no different from that with most other consumer electronic products - computers, cameras, tablets, phones, earbuds, and such. Let's add non-electronic things like fishing reels, electric fans, toasters, and hair dryers to the list. It's simply free enterprise at work, not government keeping American companies out of the market.

By the way, there are successful drone manufacturers right here in Mississippi, all operating under American governments and regulations. Northrup Grumman produces drones for the military 18 miles from my house. Hush Aerospace is building a plant in Tupelo to produce drones for NASA and the military. WISPR Systems builds commercial drones in Corinth, Ocean Aero builds autonomous marine drones in Gulfport. American manufacturers typically choose to make larger, more complex, and more expensive devices herein the US and leave mass-market, consumer products to others.

 

[Red_Pyro]

Awaiting DJI drone ban, US pols look to jack tariffs 30%

While still pushing a bill to de facto ban DJI drone use in the US, politicians now introduce a law to increase tariffs on the UAVs 30%

dronedj.com

Thoughts? Disagree?

Land of the free...

 

[Vic Moss]

Well, I have a meeting with Stefanik's staffer that is behind DFR and CCCPDA later today. Once that's over, I'll share some of my thoughts.

 

[anotherlab]

That source is chock-full of links, videos, and ads everywhere. Is that firmware mention somewhere within that mess or did you find that firmware mention elsewhere?

Some images indicated that firmware images were hosted on the DJI servers based on the URL.

Or looking at it from another angle. If another company made a drone, controller, and battery that were indistinguishable from a DJI Air 3, DJI would have sued them for trademark infringement.

The only differences are the badging and that the batteries and RC's are not interchangeable with the branded DJI. 3rd party Air 3 battery chargers will charge the Specta batteries and Air 3 camera filters will fit the Specta camera.

 

[MARK (LI)]

Please do keep us abreast ...I live in NY and looking for a way to let her know that her constituents do not appreciate her misguded efforts

 

[msinger]

Or looking at it from another angle. If another company made a drone, controller, and battery that were indistinguishable from a DJI Air 3, DJI would have sued them for trademark infringement.

And my apologies for the confusion. The Spectra Air is not made by Anzu Robotics. I was thinking of the Raptor drones.

 

[anotherlab]

Please do keep us abreast ...I live in NY and looking for a way to let her know that her constituents do not appreciate her misguded efforts

I live in NYS, but not in her district. I did leave a message for Rep. Tonko, asking him to oppose this bill.

 

[anotherlab]

And my apologies for the confusion. The Spectra Air is not made by Anzu Robotics. I was thinking of the Raptor drones.

Anzu Robotics appears to be a separate company. It's 100% DJI hardware (Mavic 3 Enterprise), mostly built in Malaysia, but with the software developed in the US. I haven't seen any of the software details listed, but I would guess that Anzu is doing what Litchi did and using the DJI libraries to handle the communication and basic flying functions and then building the rest of the app around it. Or more accurately. Aloft is doing what Litchi did.

The Raptor could still be banned by the Countering CCP Drones Act. In its current form, this bill addresses DJI, subsidiaries, or companies affiliated with DJI.

From the bill as posted on Stefanik's site (Countering CCP Drones Act)

‘‘(A) telecommunications or video surveillance equipment produced by Shenzhen Da11 Jiang Innovations Sciences and Technologies Company Limited (commonly known as ‘DJI Technologies’) (or any subsidiary or affiliate
thereof); or
‘‘(B) telecommunications or video surveil16 lance services provided by an entity described in subparagraph (A) or using equipment described in such subparagraph.’’.

That can be read (IANAL) that if there is any DJI hardware that uses a radio or records a video, then this bill will apply to that Anzu as well.

 

[msinger]

Anzu Robotics appears to be a separate company. It's 100% DJI hardware (Mavic 3 Enterprise), mostly built in Malaysia, but with the software developed in the US.

Anzu Robotics is an American company (unlike DJI).

"Headquartered in the vibrant tech hub of Austin, Texas, Anzu Robotics stands as an American-owned and operated leader in drone manufacturing."

Source: About Anzu Robotics

The Raptor could still be banned by the Countering CCP Drones Act. In its current form, this bill addresses DJI, subsidiaries, or companies affiliated with DJI.

The government could modify/create a bill to ban anything they don't like (for whatever reason). That aside, my mention was only a reply to a statement suggesting we need more American drone companies.

That can be read (IANAL) that if there is any DJI hardware that uses a radio or records a video, then this bill will apply to that Anzu as well.

I'm not familiar with the intimate details of the bill nor sure what they mean by "telecommunications or video surveillance equipment produced by Shenzhen DaJiang Innovations Sciences and Technologies Company Limited". Does that without a doubt mean DJI hardware controlled by American built software is going to be banned? Maybe. Maybe not.

 

[anotherlab]

Anzu Robotics is an American company (unlike DJI).

"Headquartered in the vibrant tech hub of Austin, Texas, Anzu Robotics stands as an American-owned and operated leader in drone manufacturing."

Source: About Anzu Robotics



The government could modify/create a bill to ban anything they don't like (for whatever reason). That aside, my mention was only a reply to a statement suggesting we need more American drone companies.



I'm not familiar with the intimate details of the bill nor sure what they mean by "telecommunications or video surveillance equipment produced by Shenzhen DaJiang Innovations Sciences and Technologies Company Limited". Does that without a doubt mean DJI hardware controlled by American built software is going to be banned? Maybe. Maybe not.

We do need more American drone companies, Anzu is not a "leader in drone manufacturing". They are white-labeling DJI hardware and licensing software from Aloft.

With DJI's grip on the marketplace, an American company can't compete in the marketplace. They can't compete on the price.

 

[msinger]

Anzu is not a "leader in drone manufacturing". They are white-labeling DJI hardware and licensing software from Aloft.

You seemed to question if Anzu Robotics is a separate company. I confirmed they are an American company and thus are a separate company since we know DJI is a Chinese company.

Whether they are a leader of drone manufacturing in the US is probably a topic for another dedicated thread.

They can't compete on the price.

A company licenses another company's technology and then also beats them on price. Is that even a thing?

 

[mavic3usa]

That's what America is all about, taking risk. And Anzu is taking a huge risk by coming to the market hoping to fill a void that may be left if the bill is passed. Not the kind of risk I would take on (betting against a fickle government) but unless Anzu has been told by their lawyers they'll be fine or they have some sort of agreement (from the government) that they'll be fine, I'm not sure why someone would risk their money to build a factory or acquire the space, employ a bunch of workers, start up a ton of R&D, etc. knowing there is a possibility they may have to strike the US market from their list. Is Anzu prepared to sell drones (at the same price) only in the Rest of the World if the government decides their drones don't qualify? Or will they fold up shop and leave everybody hanging and blame it on the bill (law)? I dunno but if I'm the smartest and the brightest, I don't work well under those risky conditions. I can compete against the competition, I can compete for the customer, I can fight for the best technology....but I'm no match for the government.

I think I understand Anzu. They are praying the government takes out the number 1 and leave the space wide open for them to have their way with the market. They are hoping they've done just enough to overcome the reach of the bill (but for how long?). And then when the way is cleared, they'll swoop in and enjoy the spoils. The problem is in such a situation, prices rise, mistakes are made, technology is stunted, apathy sets in, hardware and software is sloppy, schedules and projects run long and overbudget and nothing seems to go right. Just look all over the world at other countries where this happens, when the government steps in and clears the way for someone else or only allows one (or a few) to compete (by law), that someone else is never the best there is. The only way to become the best is to outsmart, outperform, outthink, and outsell your competition all by yourself without outside (government) help and it takes years of hard work, not minutes with the stroke of a pen.